Not my vid but I found it very interesting. Watch 10.30 to 11.30 for the main issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtnaqJuJ9kw
Edit: another good vid from a tomach owner regarding production runs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw9xBtklDRo
Second this. It mirrors my experience with Tormach and the advice I try to give people. They will not take their garbage back even when it is obviously trash. NYCCNC's shilling is painful to watch, he is selling people a lie and he probably knows it.
I think saying that John from NYC CNC is outright lying is a bit extreme. Obviously he's making their product look good (sponsored content and all) but by doing things that are within the capabilities of a hobby level machine. Other the other hand, there's a lot of debate on if the part/operation this dude is trying to do is even with the capabilities of the tormach.
Now, it's extremely shitty that Tormach told him that part could be made when it can't. That alone is grounds for a full refund and all the back and forth in-between also reflects really poor customer service. I was honestly expecting worse on the re-stocking fee, it's expensive to ship that much weight across the country. That being said, he asked if it could do what he wanted, they said yes without hesitation, it doesn't, he shouldn't have to pay.
That being said, there really isn't an alternative to what they are offering, provided you can accept what they are offering.
If you need a machine for light hobby work and/or prototyping then sure go with a Tormach. Also know you're signing yourself up for tweaking and playing, and that there aren't factory techs that you can rely on when the machine goes down.
If you're trying to run any kind of serious production you've already positioned yourself outside of a Tormach. That's the part of this video that is very misleading. Is anyone surprised that a $50k HAAS is better than a $20k Tormach? Really?
Price-wise, I can't justify anything other than a Tormach, and logistically I can't support it. I have a garage, not a dedicated shop. I have less than an 8' ceiling, no 3 phase (and a properly sized VFD would kill my power), and I need to fit a car in there when I'm not working. If anyone can explain to me how I'll get a running HAAS, tooled and in my garage for $15K, I'm all ears.
I don't entirely agree with you but I would really appreciate John being more transparent about his working relationships with the various companies such as Tormach, JD Squared, Haas, Boss laser, and most recently mark forged.
This is probably just a Canada thing but I thought there were ad standards for disclosing these things during the video
Just curious what your main complaint is, my shop has a tormach and we really like it so I'm curious to hear the flipside.
Disagree
NYCCNC provided me useful education
Yes, the machine is limited
Yes, I wish I has a Haas
But, once I learned how to use it, it made great parts
This video is getting a fair amount of traction; perhaps for good reason. Until now most of us have only seen the overwhelming positivity avalanche coming from the Tormach marketing machine (NYC CNC included). We purchased an 1100 for prototyping at work and it's never lived up to the hype.
IDK, the only hype Iโve ever seen is that it is cheap and comes ready to go out of the box. Which of those didnโt it live up to?
I had a different experience
I have a PCNC 1100 with ATC. At first, I had nothing but trouble
The ATC is a borderline design that requires careful adjustment. In the first few weeks, nothing seemed to work right. The tool holding forks are fastened with nylon screws, and the ATC came with a big bag of spares. I soon discovered why. When the ATC misbehaves, it breaks the screws
I tried taking cuts at similar feeds and speeds to my old Bridgeport and had problems with chatter, tool pullout and overloading the spindle
Little by little, I learned the machine. I learned feeds and speeds that worked, and figured out the adjustment quirks of the ATC
After that, all is well. The machine is now a solid performer. My last production run was approx 500 parts in 6061 T6 aluminum. All came out great, without any problems
My first thought is that this guy was asking too much from his machine. And I agree with the tormach tech that there are too many variables for them to make promises about the tolerance of parts produced on his machine.
Any info on your ATC calibration? I was going to start on that tomorrow. I haven't run the ATC last couple parts because it started dropping tools into the bed more often and getting low on the screws.
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